November 17th Events in Sinespace and High Fidelity


I am deliberately breaking my self-imposed vacation from the blog to announce two daylong events taking place in not one, but two different metaverse platforms this coming Saturday, November 17th! It’s going to be a busy day!

First, Sinespace is celebrating its second anniversary with a full day of events, including a keynote address by Adam Frisby and a talk by game developer Warren Spector. Here are all the details.

And over at High Fidelity, there is the FUTVRE LANDS Virtual Reality Festival taking place. According to the press release:

FUTVRE LANDS is an entertainment festival without traditional festival headaches like long lines, heat stroke and sudden downpours. Free and open to the public, it offers the VR-curious an opportunity to venture into social virtual experiences. Anyone can access FUTVRE LANDS via a VR headset, desktop or Google Daydream-enabled Android device. The event lineup includes Oculus Rift VR headset giveaways, the fan-favorite “Last Avatar Standing” trivia game show—where participants earn High Fidelity Coin (HFC) cryptocurrency—and live performances headlined by five-time Grammy nominee Thomas Dolby (“She Blinded Me with Science”).

Full details on the festival can be found here.

(Aaand, I’m going back on vacation... )


Why I Am Really Taking a Vacation from the Blog

Photo by Mohamed Ajufaan on Unsplash

You know, I said I was taking a vacation from this blog. And then, of course (like I usually do), something cool comes up—someone mentions a new virtual world, Altamura releases another free mesh avatar body—and I get all excited and I break my word.

Tonight, while driving home from supper at my mother’s, I realized:

I really don’t have a clue. 

Here I am, blissfully and blithely assuming that I am actually going to be making a living in some way from “social VR, virtual worlds, and the metaverse” (the tagline of my blog) when I finally do decide (hopefully, at some age before 65) to take my retirement.

And I don’t have any sort of game plan. I talk about becoming a virtual fashion designer, and I haven’t touched my copy of Marvelous Designer since February. I’m not going to get very far (or make very much money at it) if I don’t work my way up the learning curve.

I’m also trying, with my producer Andrew and his cameraman Carlos, to launch the Metaverse Newscast show. My cancer scare pushed everything back; we’ve only got two-thirds of the first episode in the can so far (interviews with Solas and Galen).

The theologian Frederick Buechner once wrote about finding your calling in life:

There are all different kinds of voices calling you to all different kinds of work, and the problem is to find out which is the voice of God rather than of Society, say, or the Super-ego, or Self-Interest.

By and large a good rule for finding out is this. The kind of work God usually calls you to is the kind of work (a) that you need most to do and (b) that the world most needs to have done. If you really get a kick out of your work, you’ve presumably met requirement (a), but if your work is writing TV deodorant commercials, the chances are you’ve missed requirement (b). On the other hand, if your work is being a doctor in a leper colony, you have probably met requirement (b), but if most of the time you’re bored and depressed by it, the chances are you have not only bypassed (a) but probably aren’t helping your patients much either.

Neither the hair shirt nor the soft berth will do. The place God calls you to is the place where your deep gladness and the world’s deep hunger meet.

—Frederick Buechner, Wishful Thinking

I’m a very lucky man; not once, but twice, I have found that place where my deep gladness and the world’s deep hunger meet.

The first time was discovering the joys of libraries as a child, and eventually becoming a librarian.

The second time—this time around—I accidentally discovered my deep gladness when I first set foot in Second Life back in 2007. And then (much later, and again by accident!) I discovered that I also had a talent for writing this blog, for explaining and elucidating how the metaverse works, and talking with and interviewing the personalities that make it happen.

I hate to say this, but I really do need to put the blog on hold so I can make some proper plans.

How long? I’m thinking, for the rest of November, maybe longer. But I really do need to stop, catch my breath, and figure out where the hell I am going with all this.

I do hope you understand. Thank you for being such faithful readers! When I do decide to resume my blogging, you’ll all be the first to know.

Photo by Pablo Heimplatz on Unsplash

Book Review: Dr. Margaret Gibson Makes the Case for Second Life Being a Mature, “Haunted” Virtual World

After my recent cancer scare, I picked up a book that I had been reading, which I had set aside, titled Living and Dying in a Virtual World: Digital Kinships, Nostalgia, and Mourning in Second Life, by Dr, Margaret Gibson and Clarissa Carden (Palgrave Macmillan, 2018). I had promised earlier that if I had time, I would write a book review, and here is that review.

Living and Dying in a Virtual World

This book, which covers various issues of nostalgia, memorial, and mourning in the virtual world of Second Life, is highly recommended reading, particularly for those people who don’t “get” Second Life, or understand why over a half-million people still use the platform regularly after 15 years. Here is a lengthy excerpt from the final chapter of the book, which I found especially thought-provoking reading:

SL was one of a group of virtual worlds which came online in the early 2000s. Not all have survived. The Sims Online, later EA Online, is a notable example of a world which, despite being loved by its residents, did not make it. Of those that have continued, some, like World of Warcraft, are game-focused. The purpose of their existence, and for the continued interaction of users, is apparently self-evident. Second Life provides no such explanation for its own continuation. It continues to exist because it remains in use—but the reasons residents choose to live in SL may be as numerous as residents themselves.

Due to its age, SL, while no longer cutting-edge technology, is still a very new type of entity. Mature virtual worlds have not and could not have existed at any other moment in history. Never before has it been possible for residents to have engaged so extensively and for such long periods of time in a single digital environment. Our ideas of what constitute meaningful relationships, and the way in which these relationships should be remembered, have simply failed to live up to the rate of change. While there is a great deal of ubiquity to memorialisation online, it is easy to forget that there are still people who are surprised by this phenomenon and are not willing or comfortable participants.

Existing media discourses pathologise long-term engagement with virtual worlds such as SL. If SL is inherently and necessarily secondary, it can be redefined as a distraction, a space in which individuals unreasonably and unfairly spend time which could be more usefully employed elsewhere. This perspective has informed the salacious media coverage which accompanied SL’s early years and, arguably, has contributed to an almost complete refusal on the part of major media sources to engage with SL in more recent years. There are, of course, exceptions, such as The Atlantic’s 2017 article “The Digital Ruins of a Forgotten Future.” As the name implies, however, this article, while sensitive and extensive, ultimately positions SL as something that is not quite comprehensible. There is almost a sense of confusion that this virtual world, which is no longer new and which appears not to have lived up to its initial promise, has stubbornly refused to die.

However, this book has demonstrated that SL continues to be a space in which significant and valuable lives are lived. The distinction between “real” and “virtual” lives reflects a biological fact. Avatars cannot age, or die, or experience the sensation of touch. Avatar life cannot exist independently of physical embodied life. The avatar is in this sense secondary—its death cannot end the existence of the human operator, even though the opposite is true. This purely pragmatic view of firstness and secondness not only obscures the lived reality of second lives, it also speaks against a discourse which holds that the “true self” exists independent of the circumstances of our physical lives. This discourse has been powerful in shaping our understandings of the relationship between computers and mortality. Computers can only be understood as offering a potential salve for mortality if the “true” self can exist outside of the physical body. This understanding of the “true” self is also prevalent in the perspectives of SL residents, who see SL as a place in which they are freed from the constraints of their embodied lives and can finally live “truly.”

Dr. Gibson goes on to make the case that Second Life has indeed graduated into the ranks of a “mature” virtual world, and even goes on to say that it is, in a way, “haunted”:

This tenuous connection to significant objects and spaces is exacerbated by rumours of SL’s impending death. Linden Lab has been spruiking a new virtual reality project, Project Sansar, for a few years. It has gained support from prominent SL residents who have been invited to create spaces and objects within this new environment. It has, however, led to real fears among members of the SL population who suspect that SL will eventually be shut down. If this were to occur, it would follow a string of other virtual worlds—notably including The Sims Online—which have been destroyed after becoming unprofitable. This is a danger inherent in investing heavily in a virtual world, one which likely contributes to the ideas of firstness and secondness which remain an important part of the language of residents. However, residents do not act with a constant awareness of or fear of the possibility of SL’s impending death. The longevity of this virtual world has created a situation in which its life can be projected into the future—it has become a taken-for-granted part of individual biographies which is not understood as facing an imminent end unless residents stop to consider this as a possibility. It is this taken-for-grantedness, this association with individual memory and biography, which characterises SL as a mature virtual world.

Yet SL does not function independently or outside of the physical world. Its history is its own, but it is interwoven with the history of the world offline in both an individual and collective sense. There are spaces in which a resident is transported to an imagined version of a time and place in the history of Europe or the USA. In this book we have discussed 1920s Berlin, but there are also historical representations of Chicago, Texas, Rome, London, and others. In these locations the work of heritage associated with the upkeep of memories and physical places or objects is overtaken by a new kind of heritage work which is rooted in experience and emotion. The heritage sites one encounters in these spaces are not carefully preserved and contextualised in relation to a history which encompasses that which followed their moment of prominence. Instead, they are spaces in which one can live history devoid of context. In a way this allows for a more accurate understanding of individual biography in relation to historical metanarratives—these spaces provide one with a sense that those residing within them do not know what comes next—theirs is an unknown and unseeable future. Yet the users of the avatars do indeed know the future and are thus in a situation in which a future is known but not known, full of possibilities and yet constrained.

Second Life is a haunted virtual world with various forms of spectrality around lost and deceased lives, the persistence of memory, and the persistence of grievability, but it is also a world that regenerates itself. There are always new projects on the horizon. The extent to which these projects are likely to materialise in SL itself is open to question. The future of this world cannot be assured any more than could the futures of those virtual worlds that have gone before. What is certain, however, is that those residents who have developed important networks of relatedness and who have engaged in the acts of memory we detail in this book will find ways to maintain those networks and those memories.

In short, what makes SL a mature, still-thriving, and evolving virtual world is its strong community. Linden Lab might, perhaps, be a little surprised at the stubbornness and tenacity of SL’s userbase, some of whom (as this book excerpt alludes to) are adamantly opposed to the idea of a new virtual world, Sansar, “replacing” their beloved Second Life. (As I have stated often before on this blog, no matter what Linden Lab does with Second Life vis-à-vis Sansar, they can’t win.)

Galen, in his recent guest editorial, talks about how Linden Lab might choose to reinvigorate Second Life in the (unlikely, but still possible) case that Sansar fails to take off:

What if Sansar fails?

It’s a bit sad that there are many vocal Second Life users who are hoping for this outcome in the belief that Linden Lab will use the money saved to improve SL faster. Personally, I’m not ready to predict Sansar’s imminent or future demise. I still think Sansar has the best shot of success among all the social VR platforms right now.

But let me just speculate for a moment what would happen if LL were to give up on Sansar development and essentially shut it down. I’m going to imagine it from the perspective of what I would do if I were at the helm of Linden Lab and not make an actual prediction, per se.

What would cause me to shut down Sansar? Most likely, this would result from a series of very visible signs that people are preferring some alternative to Sansar and that doom Sansar to have a small niche audience. If, for example, someone made a YouTube video showing how you could create your own multiplayer VR social experience from scratch in Unity in 15 minutes, that would be a solid sign. Or if HiFi’s rendering engine was as good and their typical daily concurrency peak was over 10k and growing, while Sansar’s remained flatly under 1k. It wouldn’t be one single thing. It would be several devastating signs like these that would do it.

Assuming I just shut down Sansar, what would I do with the remaining staff, budget, and experience gained from Sansar? The obvious answer is: Improve SL. I would probably take a big gamble that would still be bold but not as dramatic as Sansar. In particular, I would turn SL into a “hybrid grid”. Let me explain what I mean.

SL is a fossil. Yes, there’s plenty of room to improve it, but the gradual improvements to it are always supposed to be backwards compatible with content going back to 2002. That hinders SL’s potential immensely. That’s why LL took the big leap into the Sansar project as a totally new world to begin with: for a fresh start. I think they know that Second Life’s days are numbered and that something will eventually draw most of SL’s population away.

To breathe new life into SL, I would engineer a significant and only partially compatible version of the Second Life viewer and servers. Let’s call the current technology “SL classic” and the new part “SL next-gen”. The next-gen part of SL would take advantage of many of the lessons learned and technologies pioneered for Sansar. Picture having a new SL client that supports both classic and next-gen sims. Those sims could live alongside one another, as though two grids in one. Your account would be good for both. So would your money. But maybe you would have to create a new avatar in the new grid. Or maybe there would be some conversion utility. And some assets you own in the classic grid wouldn’t be fully compatible with the new one. And assets made specifically for the next-gen grid would be largely incompatible with the classic one. The overarching goal would be to gradually migrate everyone over to the newer platform and eventually retire the old.

There are many possibilities that would open up if I were in damage control mode after Sansar had died and I wanted to know what to do next. But I would likely favour doing some sort of hybrid grid as described above and seeking to gradually migrate SL’s residents and ventures into the newer technology platform. That’s what would make SL’s population grow again and give SL many more years of life ahead.

In other words, Second Life as we know it may indeed evolve into some sort of “hybrid” grid system, as Linden Lab slowly moves its SL grids over to new technology (they are already hard at work on a project to move Second Life sims from physical servers to “the cloud”). While this latter work is far from Galen’s idealized “hybrid” grid system, Linden Lab would be wise to consider all its options, lest it lose its Second Life population to rival virtual world platforms such as High Fidelity and Sinespace.

The community fostered by Second Life, as a mature virtual world, “haunted” by the associations, memories, and aftereffects of its millions of users over the years, will continue to live on, in one way or another. I find Dr. Gibson’s book a reassuring academic treatise on the topic, and well worth a read.

UPDATED! AviLife: A Brief Introduction

And wouldn’t you know it, just as soon as I decide to take a vacation from the blog, I find yet another new, as-yet-unreleased virtual world! Damn it, people, I am supposed to be taking a vacation! 😉

It’s called AviLife (not to be confused with Avakin Life, which is primarily a mobile virtual world app aimed at the tween/teen market), and it appears to be desktop only (no VR). Here’s a preview video:

All I can find for it now are some online user forums. The FAQ (posted July 22nd) says:

What studio is developing this game?

FlammableStudios (British indie developers)

What engine will it support?

Unreal Engine 4

What platforms will it support? PC. MAC. Steam. X-Box. PS4. PS5?

PC, PS4, Xbox

Will this game be free to play or subscription based?

Free to play

What is the intended ESRB rating for this game?

18 In the EU, M in the US

What are the intended core features for this game?

Advanced avatar customization (Including layered clothing, so you can wear a jacket over a shirt for example)

Advanced personal space customization (Item placement, wall papers, flooring, lights colors, etc)

Cross-platform (Certain consoles may have to be excluded from cross-platform play)


Environment interaction

Many social features (Dancing, Actions, Poses, etc)

YouTube & Soundcloud integration (Media players)


Mini-games (There’s going to be a high focus on providing fun mini-games once the core of the game is finished)

Locomotion Items (Jetpacks, skateboards, wings, etc)


Physics Items (Example: a ball that you can freely kick around, etc)

Modern arcade games

A theme park (A full theme park, this won’t be in for a while though)

+ More

Who is funding development, content and server costs?

We’re currently self funded, we will have a kicksrtarter/indiegogogo once we have the proof of concept demo ready.

There are currently no plans for VR support or mobile device support. They plan on launching a kickstarter where investors will get exclusive early access and unique items.

From watching the video, it seems a lot like Second Life. Which leads me to ask: why do we need another Second Life? What will AviLife offer that is different and unique from SL? This appears to be primarily a free-to-play console-based game. The FAQ states:

What makes this game any different from what’s already presently available; Nebula Realms, Atom universe, Four King’s Casino And Slots? If I’m loyal to Atom Universe for example, what would make me support this game?

Without commenting on any other world, we believe AviLife will be the most advanced console world. I was also [a PlayStation] Home user from the original closed beta, I understand what works, what people want, and what will make AviLife the best place to play.

I also notice this strange, rather stern “anti-marketing reminder“, which appears to discourage people from comparing AviLife with other virtual worlds:

We have informed the community numerous times that within any aspect of our community, that be on PS4, on here, or even in discord, or in-game you’re free to talk about other worlds in the context of comparing them to AviLife, as this is a great way to talk about how worlds can be improved while also discussing the impact, AviLife has, or can give to others. However when you discuss virtual worlds that have nothing to do with AviLife, and do not include AviLife in this discussions you do nothing for the AviLife community. Not to mention that the logo’s belonging to these virtual worlds are usually on or around the images being posted, and that means we are marketing content that is not ours to market.

I bring this concern up because of a misunderstanding the community seems to have on what we consider to be allowed, or disallowed. This is another reminder on the topic. If you have any questions feel free to contact me directly, or reply to this post. Keep your comments non-biased, and fair. Please remember that we want a just and fair community, but we also have rules that every member must follow, there are no exceptions.

Well, good luck with clamping down on that, hun. You all already know how I feel about virtual worlds that try to throttle any discussion of competitors.

I also find it frustrating that I cannot find very much information at all about AviLife, other than a few videos and this forum. I only learned about the existence of this virtual world in a discussion thread over on the Second Life Friends group on Facebook, where people were talking about where they would go if SL suddenly shut down. I guess we’ll all find out more when they launch their kickstarter!

UPDATE Nov. 12th: TheRealHuggablePanda has posted a 12-minute YouTube video describing some of the screenshots, images, and other information currently available about AviLife:

It seems clear from this fan-made video that AviLife is targeting the former PlayStation Home crowd, a console-based virtual world which closed in 2015.

Second Life Steals, Deals, and Freebies: Free Altamura Estephania Mesh Full-Body Avatar for Women in the SL Frees and Offers Hunt!

*Checks his watch*

Damn it! This is all Altamura’s fault!! I was all set to take a vacation from the blog and then she issued yet another fabulous, free mesh female avatar as a hunt prize in the First Annual SL Frees and Offers Hunt, which runs from the 3rd to the 25th of November. You are looking for a beautiful golden autumn leaf in the store that looks like this:

HUNT item for SL F&O HUNT.png

When you find it, click on it, select Deliver from the blue pop-up menu that appears, and you get your hunt prize: the Estephania female mesh full-body avatar (head and body together in one package)! Estephania has a lovely darker skin tone, as you can see from these pictures:

Altamura New 1 3 Nov 2018.png

Altamura New 2 3 Nov 2018.png

In what now appears to be a trend for the company, this is another one of the Altamura freebies which does not allow you to remove the head (in order to replace it with another mesh head). This is rather disappointing, but it’s such a beautiful head that you can hardly complain (see picture above)!

Estephania is a fully-adjustable Bento body which comes with a HUD which allows you a complete set of alpha selections to make just about any clothing fit well. I have found that clothing designed for the Maitreya Lara mesh avatar body tends to fit the Altamura female bodies very well, with a minimum of fuss (and more and more designers are now creating clothing specifically designed for Altamura mesh bodies).

Please note that, like all the other free mesh bodies Altamura has put out, this body is not Omega-compatible (you have to buy a full-price version to get that feature). You get the one skin tone with this body, which is actually quite lovely. There are simply not enough free/inexpensive options for darker-skinned avatars in Second Life, and Estephania is a welcome addition!

Also, the Altamura female mesh bodies have Slink-compatible feet, so any shoe designed for Slink feet should work well (the female mesh body gift comes in three foot heights, selectable via the HUD: flat, medium, and high). The bodies have Bento hands, and (in a nice added touch) Altamura has included a hand AO which cycles through natural hand positions, which you can use with your regular (non-Bento) AO. There’s also a facial AO.

This avatar is wearing:

Mesh Head and Body: Estephania full-body mesh avatar (free hunt prize from Altamura in the SL Frees & Offers Hunt).

Hair: free Pulled Back Bun (brown) from the Library / Accessories / Hair Design Options / Pulled Back Bun folder in your SL inventory. Free, adjustable, tintable, uncomplicated.

Eyes: brown Dream eyes by YS&YS (free gift from a previous Second Life shopping event; no longer available).

Dress: Faith gold metallic minidress by Justice (free group gift if you join the SL Frees & Offers group for free); the Maitreya Lara version of this dress fits the Altamura Jenny body well. The dress comes in three colours—gold, copper, and rose gold.

Shoes: gold Olivia heels (free gift from Ello); the Altamura Estephania body has Slink-compatible feet.


There are dozens of other wonderful hunt gifts available in the hunt, mostly for women but some for men also; here is a complete list of locations. Have fun!

I’m Taking a Vacation from the Blog

I’m feeling kinda cranky and out-of-sorts, I have been all week, and I think I need to take a vacation from this blog.

Photo by Ethan Robertson on Unsplash

I don’t know when I’ll be back. When I feel like it. I just need some time and space away from virtual worlds and social VR and blah blah blah… all that stuff. And when that stuff starts to irritate me—when it stops being fun—then it’s time for me to take a break.

See you when I get back!

UPDATED: Rough Notes from Today’s Sansar Product Meeting, Nov. 1st, 2018

Please note that my notes are rough notes only, and may contain errors.  Inara Pey was present and recording the meeting, so there will be a full report from her at a later date. But for now, here is what was discussed at the well-attended meeting.

UPDATE Nov. 2nd: I have added Inara Pey’s excellent notes from this meeting. They include audio excerpts.

Ebbe, Eliot, Landon, Cara, and Nyx (among several other Linden Lab staff) attended the Product Meeting today, which (at least according to the Sansar Atlas display) seems to have set a record for the number of avatars in a single Sansar experience!

Product Meetup 2 1 Nov 2018.png
Questions I asked Landon and the other Linden Lab staff are bolded.

Why has Linden Lab decided to make Sansar available on Steam?

Landon: We think we’ll be ready to launch on Steam after the next couple of Sansar client updates. Also, people cannot find us (they expect us to be on Steam). Steam is where the highest density of people who meet our hardware requirements are found (VR users and gamers).

Will Sansar still be available outside of Steam, as it currently is for Oculus Rift users?

Landon: Yes, absolutely.

Why is Linden Lab pushing to release Sansar on Steam before the end of this year, rather than wait another six months to a year to further polish the platform and add new features?

We want to get more people in, to help refine the product and make it better. We want to start building a community on Steam.

Re: dealing with any negative feedback on Steam, Eliot will pass that along to the appropriate people to deal with and respond to.

Besides losing the SandeX, what other major changes to Sansar are going to be required before it launches on Steam?

Landon: No other major changes to the platform.

What steps are you going to take to promote Sansar once it launches on Steam?

Eliot: expect some significant ad spend, expect some original assets. Linden Lab wants to build a community on Steam.

Linden Lab is also working towards launching on the Oculus Store, but they are prioritizing Steam first. (Sansar is already available on VIVEPORT.)

Some notes on the economics (Warning: economics is not my strength, so I may have some of the finer details wrong):

The buy rate will be set to 100 Sansar dollars to 1 US dollar. The exchange rate back (the sell rate) will be set to 250 to 1. However, the sell rate will be grandfathered for current Sansar users at the “legacy” rate of 143 to 1 until at least the end of next year (2019). The fees for process credit will stay.

Steam will not be part of the process of Sansar dollars, that will be entirely internal to Sansar. Cashouts will be entirely within Linden Lab, not Steam.

Users will be able to buy Sansar dollars on Steam and Steam will make 30% on that transaction. The division is: roughly 30% Steam, 30% Linden Lab, and the rest goes to creators. Note that there will be no 30% cut to Steam if you buy Sansar dollars on your credit card (as you do now).

The plan is to remove the transaction fees on sold items, but keep the transaction fee in gifting (which is a minor part of the economy). Galen said that he thinks that giving up the 15% transaction fee will lubricate the Sansar economy.

Linden Lab told us that they will be building a hub (or hubs) for a better first-time user experience.

Ebbe: Sansar will be listed on Steam as an Early Access game.

The Steam refund policy will not/does not refer to microtransactions within Sansar.

There are currently no plans to integrate with Steamworks.

Don’t expect Linux or Mac clients at the time of Steam launch.

Eliot: We want to be an alternative to VRChat. VRChat users are telling us that they are looking for something different.

Expect an influx of Steam users into the Sansar Discord channel. We now have over 1,000 users in Discord (including LL staff).

Oh, and Landon wants more male outfits and hair in the Sansar Store! 😉

Product Meetup 1 Nov 2018.png
Product Meeting, Nov. 1st, 2018

And the next client release is anticipated for next Wednesday, November 7th (no promises!).

Also, there was a complaint about a continuing problem with the mouth and teeth of the female avatar. Chic Aeon noted later on Discord:

AND —- I want to put in a pet peeve for the gals again. At the end of the meeting someone asked if the female teeth would be fixed and got brushed off with a “that’s just the smile” comment that seems to be the party line. That did NOT go over well with most of the gals I am thinking. Wondering if that would have been fixed if it was the MALE avatar that is “messed” up. (insert stronger word if you like). I was pretty insulted on many levels. Doubt I was the only one.

Note to Linden Lab: FIX. THE. TEETH. ALREADY. People have been complaining about this for weeks now. Please listen to them.

Eliot livestreamed the meeting to Twitch, if you happened to miss it, or were late.

Inara Pey 2 Nov 2018.png

Inara Pey has also posted her detailed notes from this meeting on her blog, along with audio excerpts. Thank you, Inara!